Rant - why don't more of you autocross?

[Harv]

Oh you just wait! You just wait!

John

[Pierre]

I used to autocross regularly, then I went to the track.

An autocross is $75-$100. I longest autocross course is 90 seconds. The most runs I have done was 8 in one session and we had 4 sessions that day. That's 32 runs. That's about 45 minutes of driving time MAX. Most autocrosses are 60-70 seconds each, you go out 6 times per session and they have 3 sessions in a day. At most events, I totaled around 20-30 minutes.

A track day is about $135. You go out a minimum of 4 times for 20 minutes each. And that's average. At most track events, I end up driving 6 sessions because the field thins out by the end of the day. That's 2 hours of track time.

At an autocross, you spend a lot of time waiting for your turn. Tires never get warm. It's an instant blast of complete mayhem for a few seconds and you're done.

At the track, you car gets warmed up, your tires get warmed up, you get warmed up, the next lap comes comes right after the previous one, you focus for 20-30 minutes continuously. When you are done, you feel satisfied, you stop, debrief, relax. At an autocross, it's: Ready! Set! Go done. At the end of every run, I felt I had barely started getting warmed up and it was all over.

Setting up a car for the track is different than setting it up for an autocross. In fact, track cars make better daily drivers than autocrossers, especially 2002s. Autocross cars need very short gearing, a ton of camber and very stiff suspensions. Track cars can have taller gearing, and be a little softer. And, I always felt that I revved the engine too hard when it was not fully warmed up. Yes the coolant is warm but the oil isn't. It wasn't until the third run that I get the oil fully warm. That's hard on an engine.

At the end it's a matter of personal choice. I just expressed how I feel about both having done both.

[tjones02]

I'm in Redding, CA which is about 2.5 hours north of Sacramento. I'm guessing the closest thing available is going to be in Sac but that website you linked has a lot of good stuff.

Out on the coast is the Redwood Sports Car Club http://www.rscc.net/ As far as I remember they use the SCCA rulebook.... Their website has information and schedules for the Trinity Touring Club out of Redding. My brother in law autocrosses a 350Z with Redwood.

HTH

[jrkoupe]

I used to autocross regularly, then I went to the track.

An autocross is $75-$100. I longest autocross course is 90 seconds. The most runs I have done was 8 in one session and we had 4 sessions that day. That's 32 runs. That's about 45 minutes of driving time MAX. Most autocrosses are 60-70 seconds each, you go out 6 times per session and they have 3 sessions in a day. At most events, I totaled around 20-30 minutes.

A track day is about $135. You go out a minimum of 4 times for 20 minutes each. And that's average. At most track events, I end up driving 6 sessions because the field thins out by the end of the day. That's 2 hours of track time.

At an autocross, you spend a lot of time waiting for your turn. Tires never get warm. It's an instant blast of complete mayhem for a few seconds and you're done.

At the track, you car gets warmed up, your tires get warmed up, you get warmed up, the next lap comes comes right after the previous one, you focus for 20-30 minutes continuously. When you are done, you feel satisfied, you stop, debrief, relax. At an autocross, it's: Ready! Set! Go done. At the end of every run, I felt I had barely started getting warmed up and it was all over.

Setting up a car for the track is different than setting it up for an autocross. In fact, track cars make better daily drivers than autocrossers, especially 2002s. Autocross cars need very short gearing, a ton of camber and very stiff suspensions. Track cars can have taller gearing, and be a little softer. And, I always felt that I revved the engine too hard when it was not fully warmed up. Yes the coolant is warm but the oil isn't. It wasn't until the third run that I get the oil fully warm. That's hard on an engine.

At the end it's a matter of personal choice. I just expressed how I feel about both having done both.

ditto.....

.but $135 for a track day?...not here in NY/CT area.....at least 230 on up...

[mannix]

Autocross and track days are wholly different - much like driving ranges vs. golf.

Autocross is like golf; precision, as efficient as possible.

Track days are like the driving range - just the sheer joy of bashing stuff around.

I don't expect people to get fully sucked into autocross like I have - it just seems that there are a LOT of 02 enthusiasts, but where are they?

I'm a driving-range golfer. I'm just as happy bashing balls as I am playing a real round of golf.

Track days, OTOH, bore me. I've done plenty, and someday, I'll likely roadrace (with sights set on the Runoffs or ARRC), but cars are the only real place I am _competitive_. We used to have a good Solo Trials program here in Colorado; timed, road course, no passing. Even that, with timers, was kinda boring - exciting at first, the novelty of 4th gear and all that - but once I got over the initial "yippie," I started trying to _win_.

Trying to win went from boring to "scary stuff I can't afford." I could not afford to wreck the car then, now, I just don't WANT to afford to wreck the car. For me, just driving around a track is boring after a while. I need timers or some sort of competition, and once that happens, I push harder and harder to win - that can have dire consequences on a road course.

Some people are all about seat time - that's great. One is not better than another; they're vastly different experiences.

I just wish more would do it, kinda like in the late 90s with VWs - there used to be TONS of early watercooled VWs in FSP (and DSP before that).

Where are the 02s?

Iain

[brad_c-ville_VA]

i run my 02 in SM class with the Virginia Motorsports Club on occasion and i've run with SCCA in various places around VA. but often i have conflicts with my schedule and can only make 2 or 3 autoXes a year. with all the other 02 events we do in VA/NC i have to pick and choose!

lots of fun and the 02 is a great drive. i'm not competitive in SM at all and have thought about EP. but really, i just want to go to increase my driving skills and see what the car can do. i rarely place higher than second last but it's a great time...and i'm never the slowest car out there!

[02Les]

ok i see whst you mean by autocross in Europe (as i now have to call it)

this is autocross http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuA7BnoOH3Q&feature=related and my first reaction to this was becuse i dont wont to smash my car up

but i take it this is what you mean

. this is somthing that i would like to do but i just dont have the time just yet

That's autocross as I remember it (i'm also a Brit). Way back in the '70s the Cortinas, Capris etc, would dice it out with an occasional '02. Classic racing.

The guy in the Mini must have done that course before!!!

Cheers.

[RussTii]

Actually we do about 15 or 20 events a year with our EM 2002 and the Peachtree Chapter BMW and Atlanta Region SCCA. Our local EP competition is a supercharged Miata and a Chevy/RX7 with 390 whp. We were running EP but all our competition disappeared so my son and I would rather lose than be in a class by ourselves. The fact we are winning the class against newer, more sophisticated machinery is just a bonus as we are frequently the quickest BMW in the SCCA points events and typically are placed in the top class with the BMW club against the M-roadsters and M-coupes. Have beaten any number of Mini's, M cars, you name it. We are currently trying road race slicks and hope that some time soon we will get a dry, warm event where we can see how well these slicks actually work on a 2000 pound antique A/X car.

[m-racer]

That's like asking why don't more you like vanilla or why don't you lazy slubs do concours. It is because not everyone enjoys it. I have done lots of autox over the years and lots of track work (been though Skip Barbour, BMWCCA instructor, etc.) over the years. I still enjoy it when I have the time. One man's vanilla is another's rocky road. Simple as that.

[1974bmw2002]

i autocross with philly scca but not with the 02. my dad wont let me. i use my 04 mini cooper s john cooper works

[mannix]

That's like asking why don't more you like vanilla or why don't you lazy slubs do concours. It is because not everyone enjoys it.

I kinda agree, but not really - I think there are a LOT of 02 enthusiasts who have just not quite gotten there - "my car needs _____" or "I need _____."

I feel like I'm asking "why don't more of you eat ice cream!??!"

Mission accomplished, though - I know at least ONE person read this and said "yup, it is time."

Iain

[steve k.]

Nice thread Iain!!!

My obsession started when i showed up to one event after a "drive" and decided this is what i wanted to do. It's fun and cheap. $35 with SFRSCCA gives you 3 to 4 runs and may be fun runs. And there is very little maintenance that needs to be done before or after the event. I've been on the same brake pads for year.

Autocross is just an amazingly easy way to "compete" and learn the behavior of your car. Some of you are right, not everyone enjoys 45 seconds of pure adrenalin rush. where in the end you know the quality of your run by how much your hands shake. But i guess i would also rather do a 100m sprint then a marathon.

I think where Iain is coming from, and what i see on the forum is that there are a lot of people here are buying upgrade parts for their cars, asking what suspension is better, what will give them better HP and torque, but in the end, the car never gets to use those upgrades.

But even if your car is not ready, (what does that mean? if it's not ready for AX, it's unsafe for the street) come out and have fun. Where else can you do a 360 safely to the applause of the crowd?

Come out people!! It's time to have fun!!!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/misfit76/3381051588/in/set-72157615737035441/

steve k.

p.s. every person who comes out to the GGC BMW CCA AX this Sunday at Marina and asks me for one will get a KGB-Racing sticker

[m-racer]

That's like asking why don't more you like vanilla or why don't you lazy slubs do concours. It is because not everyone enjoys it.

I kinda agree, but not really - I think there are a LOT of 02 enthusiasts who have just not quite gotten there - "my car needs _____" or "I need _____."

I feel like I'm asking "why don't more of you eat ice cream!??!"

Mission accomplished, though - I know at least ONE person read this and said "yup, it is time."

Iain

If your mission is to get people to give it a try, I am with you completely. Driving events (all kinds) are my pistachio. Man, I need some new rubber for my track wheels. Now you got me started!

[TobyB]

i get lost in all those cones...

t

[TTyMiller]

I can't drive!