68 1600, one owner, CA black plate car

[Gordon]

Not mine, no affiliation, etc...

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/1258953659.html Too bad you didn't have cash in hand right when the ad came out. Will be interesting to see what the bidding will be for this 02. Looks like a genuine time warp.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought 68 was the first year of DOT mandated side marker lights. This may be a 67 1600 or a repaint? Comments from the peanut gallery?

G-Man

[2761377]

well- it's a 1600 plain and simple. duly marked on the rear panel. i would love to know the vin on this car, my first '02 was a manila '68 1600, just like this. it had no side marker lights, nor did it have the sweet sport steering wheel this car has.

nice car.

mb this weekend?

robert w.

[Gordon]

It's now on Ebay, item # 220449541327 We have over 9 days left to see what the highest bid will bring. Ebay has a much bigger writeup and a whole lot more pics of the car. It's hard to make out the VIN in the pics. It has been repainted, the original color is Manila. At least the car is currently registered non-op. Otherwise DMV will want thier back fees.

Maybe the side marker lights were shaved when the car was repainted?

G-Man

[Delia]

Not mine, no affiliation, etc...

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/1258953659.html Too bad you didn't have cash in hand right when the ad came out. Will be interesting to see what the bidding will be for this 02. Looks like a genuine time warp.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought 68 was the first year of DOT mandated side marker lights. This may be a 67 1600 or a repaint? Comments from the peanut gallery?

G-Man

Federally mandated safety/emissions regulations applied to cars *built* in 1968.

This is likely a 1967 model with a 1968 intial sale/registration date. The low-back seats, flat turn signals and no side markers appear to be original.

(Do you think some octegenarian '02 owner would consider the aesthetics of side marker deletion and/or flat turn signals when getting his car repainted? I don't.)

I spoke with the seller this morning. There was such a huge response to the intital CL ad posted Tuesday that he felt compelled to list it on ebay. The 93 year old owner is in a nursing home and his children want to settle his affairs.

The ebay pics show some of the details and of course, rust in the rocker panels. The advantage is to see and hopefully document the details of an early, unmolested car before someone (god forbid) tears into it to make a race car or something. *shudder*

I'd be hard pressed to know what to do if it were mine. Repair the rust and touch-up the paint? An all-out restoration? Just drive it? Dunno.

The farther bidding gets over the intial $2500 CL post, the less interested I'll be.

Cheers!

Delia

[2761377]

This is likely a 1967 model with a 1968 intial sale/registration date. The low-back seats, flat turn signals and no side markers appear to be original.

well delia, here is a perfect example of my karma running over your dogma- this car MUST be a '68 model year. as noted above, this car is a clone of my first '02, a '68 1600 purchased from the original owner owner in 1982. all visible clues match my car exactly. all dmv paperwork, which i still have, indicate 1968 model year, original purchase date 14 Apr 68. the vin 1562513 is tabled by macartney for production after 1jan68. of course i didn't write the macartney book as you well know, but we all accept it, right? my cars licence was WCT 903. i believe 'W' comes before 'Y', so it reasonable to assume licensure after april 1968. btw, i paid $1600.

as for federal motor vehicle safety standard 108, we must assume BMW was granted a waiver or other time dispensation because of the evidence above. i have pics of the car taken in 1982 to prove my point, if you really want to call me a liar.

robert w.

[HBChris]

The side markers appeared in early `69, not `68. My 2002 is 11/28/68 build date, sold here in Jan/Feb `69, no headrests or side markers and is bone stock. Some makes began putting these on their `68 models in anticipation of the new regs.

[Delia]

This is likely a 1967 model with a 1968 intial sale/registration date. The low-back seats, flat turn signals and no side markers appear to be original.

well delia, here is a perfect example of my karma running over your dogma- this car MUST be a '68 model year. as noted above, this car is a clone of my first '02, a '68 1600 purchased from the original owner owner in 1982. all visible clues match my car exactly. all dmv paperwork, which i still have, indicate 1968 model year, original purchase date 14 Apr 68. the vin 1562513 is tabled by macartney for production after 1jan68. of course i didn't write the macartney book as you well know, but we all accept it, right? my cars licence was WCT 903. i believe 'W' comes before 'Y', so it reasonable to assume licensure after april 1968. btw, i paid $1600.

as for federal motor vehicle safety standard 108, we must assume BMW was granted a waiver or other time dispensation because of the evidence above. i have pics of the car taken in 1982 to prove my point, if you really want to call me a liar.

robert w.

Or, it could merely be a 1968 model produced during the latter part of the 1967 calendar year. For small-production auto companies, including importers (like BLMC, for example), the model year (1968) could have been built in the previous year (1967) and not be required to meet the federally-mandated emissions and safety standards -- perhaps even a few months into 1968.

Another example of production year vs. actual build date might be my 1973 2002tii -- it was built in October of 1972.

Delia

[tjones02]

Yes to all who think this car is an early production '68. Being a '68 model built after the Aug/Sept '67 year changeover, but still a '68 model year car.

I have a friend's car in storage at my house that is 1560847 being the 847th '68 1600. All the details that I can see are the same, down to the Manila color... 1560847 is so early it even has the early remote brake booster system.

ALL European cars have a model year changeover between August (being the last of that year) most of August being a mandatory vacation month with German manufacturers... (wouldn't THAT be nice?) to September (being the first of the next model year) Doesn't anyone notice NEW cars today coming out with next years cars even before Summer now????? The new Mustang and Camaro are examples today! They are both 2010 models and were hitting the showrooms months ago.

By the bad picture I can barely read 1561515, though could be 1561615 or such..... It definitly HAS to start with 156.... If it were a 155 that would make it a 1600 Cabriolet, which it is most definitely NOT. I can't even see which braking system the car has. The VIN plate does clearly show the "1968" which was there to show the car was equipped with the newly mandated smog equipment. They wanted to differentiate that the car was NOT a '67 which had no such power choking smog devices and thus was not required to.

I asked the seller through eBay if we can get better engine bay pictures but I forgot to ask for the VIN. USUALLY the VIN is listed in an eBay auction.... Maybe one of you can ask?

As you know many changes were made mid year.... Just SO many more than usual for the 1600-2 '67 and '68 MY. So this "little old lady" car appears correct in being an early '68.

BMW is not the only manufacturer that had early '68 MY cars that didn't have the newly required side reflectors etc. BUT the EPA must have been a stronger force because even the very early '68 I've got had the MARINOx air injection system.

HTH

[Gordon]

Here's another early unmolested CA black plate 1600 that Peter has for sale, contact Peter if you are looking for an early 1600 project car.

http://www.coupeking.com/product_id-472.html

G-Man

[tjones02]

And another in Kansas... Just look at that sexy embossed hood trim. Yum.

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/cto/1263715195.html

[tjones02]

I asked Andreas Harz for the build date of the 1560847 in my care and.....

Dear Mr Jones,

Thank you for your email.

The BMW 1600 US VIN 1560847 was manufactured on October 9th, 1967 and delivered on October 17th, 1967 to the BMW importer Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City. The original colour was Manila, paint code 004.

We hope this information is helpful for you.

Yours sincerely,

Andreas Harz

-----------------------------------------

Available at BMW Group Classic

Phone: +49 89 382 68281

Fax: +49 89 382 24765

mailto: andreas.harz@partner.bmwgroup.com

URL: http://www.bmw-grouparchives.com

[Gordon]

Winning Ebay bid was $3376, almost 900 more than the Craigslist asking price. Anyone on this list make the winning bid?

G-Man