This is why I do my own maintenance

[MatthewCervi]

Background: my wife has a 2009 VW Jetta TDI wagon and it came with 3 years of free maintenance (i.e. oil changes at 10k, 20k and 30k miles). I wasn't willing to go 10,000 miles on the original oil, so I changed it at 5,000 miles with their super-special $10/qt oil.

Yesterday we took her car in to the local dealer for the 10,000 mile service. The service advisor first identified the car as a Passat then tried to tell us the service would cost $149.

When the car was finally ready--5 hours later--there was some confusion because the service advisor had identified the engine as the 2.5L 5-cyl gas motor.

After we got home, I decided to check the oil level on a whim...sometimes in the past I had trouble with places overfilling the crankcase. What did I find? Black oil. They didn't even change the oil.

What would have happened to the average person who went in and ended up going 20,000 miles on the original oil?

The dealer was already closed by the time I discovered it, so I get to call them up tomorrow and "discuss" the problem. Saving ~$70 for oil and a filter isn't worth 2 trips to the dealer and hours of our time.

BTW, the dealer was Russel VW in Catonsville, MD if anyone wants to know who to avoid.

[JackF]

My wife is contemplating selling her MCS and getting the TDI wagon. Aside from the dealer screw-ups does she like driving it?

[MatthewCervi]

We love the car. My daily driver is a 2008 GTI and I would seriously consider the TDI as a replacement. It is quite quick off the line and has a reasonably good suspension (although not on the level of the GTI).

While the engine is much quieter than older diesels, there is still no mistaking it for a gas motor. Especially below 1500 rpm it is rough and can be noisy when cold.

She has the DSG transmission. I personally would get the manual, but the DSG works fine. The only time I really notice it is when decelerating. Because it downshifts as you slow down it makes it hard to brake smoothly because the engine braking effect keeps ratcheting up.

The quoted mileage (I think 30/40 for the DSG) is pretty accurate. My wife drives mostly in town and averages about 34 mpg. We just came back from driving it on vacation and the mileage was just over 40 for the trip.

We've had no mechanical problems in the first 10,000 miles and the quality of materials seems much higher than comparable Japanese cars.

Edit: Forgot to mention my wife loves the car, too. She had a Prius before and is much happier with the VW.

[dubois]

Matthew, the GTI is an awesome car, we really liked that car when we test drove it. My wife "settled" for a 2.5 Rabbit instead, and 25k miles later not a single maintenance problem. This car might as well be a diesel, the 5 cyl will pull out of stop even in 5th gear. We have been very happy with VW quality. Gas mileage wise in the low 30's combined, but considering it runs on regular the math gets better.

I do my own oil changes too, because the dealers are an hour away, fortunately VW provided free oil changes the first 25k miles (they would ship the oil and filter to me). I am surprised that their computer didn't pull the right model by the vin number.

On a side note, my old 240D would turn the oil black quickly after an oil change. I would assume that should no longer be normal, after 30 years of technological advances. I have seen diesel tail pipes shinny clean too.

Michael

[ray_]

Prius?!?

Ick!

;-)

Cheers,

Ray

We love the car. My daily driver is a 2008 GTI and I would seriously consider the TDI as a replacement. It is quite quick off the line and has a reasonably good suspension (although not on the level of the GTI).

While the engine is much quieter than older diesels, there is still no mistaking it for a gas motor. Especially below 1500 rpm it is rough and can be noisy when cold.

She has the DSG transmission. I personally would get the manual, but the DSG works fine. The only time I really notice it is when decelerating. Because it downshifts as you slow down it makes it hard to brake smoothly because the engine braking effect keeps ratcheting up.

The quoted mileage (I think 30/40 for the DSG) is pretty accurate. My wife drives mostly in town and averages about 34 mpg. We just came back from driving it on vacation and the mileage was just over 40 for the trip.

We've had no mechanical problems in the first 10,000 miles and the quality of materials seems much higher than comparable Japanese cars.

Edit: Forgot to mention my wife loves the car, too. She had a Prius before and is much happier with the VW.

[MatthewCervi]

On a side note, my old 240D would turn the oil black quickly after an oil change. I would assume that should no longer be normal, after 30 years of technological advances. I have seen diesel tail pipes shinny clean too.

Michael

At 10,200 miles, the tail pipe of the TDI is much cleaner than my GTI which has 11,300 miles.

We only drove about 5 miles home after the oil change, so I have to assume the oil wasn't changed. I compared it to my car which has gone about 1300 miles since I changed the oil and it's oil is still amber. I'm sure I checked the level shortly after I did the oil change at 5,000 miles and I didn't notice it being black then.

[Harv]

We have a good dealer where I live and I'm sad to say I have had them do everything to our 04 TDi wagon, but I did do the alternator on it about 2 years ago. I have stuck to the 10K oil (I'm not the original owner and I would have changed it too) change interval and notice the oil looks quite black and smelly right away.

However, hearing all the other stuff from your dealer I wouldn't be surprised. Any evidence of work?

John

[robspeed]

FWIW, my royal purple looks blackish going in fresh...

(just changed it yesterday in e30)

[jgerock]

Matthew -

I just changed the oil in the DD Accord today (178K miles). After 6K on the oil/filter, it was really black, even though I've been topping it off due to what is most likely a rear main seal leak. This car has been fed Pennzoil 5W-30 since new and I hate to let anyone else change it.

ps: The small, blue colored oil filters I buy from the Honda dealer indicate they are made by Honeywell. Hadn't noticed that labeling before.

pps: The Red Line MTL I put in the tii tranny seems to like my garage floor more than inside the trans. Maybe they should shoot a TV commercial where I'm lining my garage floor with money.

[MatthewCervi]

pps: The Red Line MTL I put in the tii tranny seems to like my garage floor more than inside the trans. Maybe they should shoot a TV commercial where I'm lining my garage floor with money.

Must be old seals. The redline in my transmission (which was rebuilt) has fortunately stayed inside.

I talked to the dealer today and after arguing they are going to (re-?)change it tomorrow. The service managers claim is that all the diesels do that and that so much oil is left in the crankcase that it looks black right away. Personally, I don't believe it (and my 5,000 mile change disputes it), but I called VW customer service to get their opinion. They're escalating and will call me back. I'm also going to post to a TDI board I found to get opinions there since there will be others with the 09 TDI's.

[jgerock]

Matthew -

Re: The tranny leakage.. I've replaced all the seals - it seems to be leaking from the end cover where it mates to the intermediate housing. It will be replaced by a 5-speed this winter.

Re: TDI oil issues. My company's former owner (Mann+Hummel) may make the oil separator, intake and fuel system components (plastic-ones anyway), there may be some maintenance checks for the breather/separator system. Have you tried viewing the TSB listings from Edmunds, All Data and others?

Example - not related to your issue http://www.edmunds.com/maintenance/recalltsb.html?styleId=101020627&engCode=4ITCG2.0&transCode=AUTOMATIC&mileage=10%2C000&zip=22310&type=tsb&serviceType=

[jgerock]

Since you are VW-savy, I'm assuming you searched the web for any TSB's. The TDI engines have lots of oil separator/breather equipment on them to keep the exhaust clean.

SORRY for the double-posting. Internet issues abound today.

[MatthewCervi]

Haven't seen any TSB's for this specific problem. I'm pretty sure there is an oil cooler, it is possible that so much oil is left in the cooler that it is contaminating the new oil although I still don't think it would look as dark as it did.

#!@$! TDI message board requires you to register, then click a link in an email and THEN wait for an admin to manually approve the account. I started the process hours ago and still can't post a question there to see what other owners have found.

I should hear back from VW of America tomorrow on their view. In my opinion, if the oil *was* changed and there was still so much old oil left in the engine that the new oil is black in 5-10 miles then they need to come up with a way to better drain the old oil. Can't be good to have that much old oil floating around with 10,000 mile oil changes.

Also, don't think I mentioned that they also forgot to rotate the tires. Or they magically transferred the majority of the brake dust to the rear wheels before moving them to the front.

[MatthewCervi]

Finally got on the tdiclub forums and got an unexpected answer: the black oil right after a change is completely normal for diesels. So I called back the dealer to cancel the appointment and apologize for insisting they didn't do the work (although they screwed up in other ways).

One post to that board though was enough to make me appreciate the bunch of folks here. I've never seen a new poster treated here the way I was there.

See http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=255706 if anyone wants to enjoy me getting trashed. Let me know if I was unreasonable in my initial post there (I know I was getting unpleasant by the end).

[themoose]

I must say, it makes you appreciate this board more and more!