Pedal box rebuilding leads to intro to hydraulic system

[shipm_8]

Any recommendations for a power bleeder? Reading past posts it seems like Bavauto’s or Motive’s, plus the oil can for the clutch are the favorite kit? That right?

I always meant to eventually learn the hydraulic system, including bleeding. There is no better time than the present…..now I have no choice: While diligently following the pedal box removal FAQ, I successfully removed the last nut on the clutch master cylinder, and I was on final approach. While gently maneuvering the master cylinder out, blue liquid started dripping.

Monosyllabic expressions of dissatisfaction would not return the fluid to its place of origin.

After cleaning the mess, I inspected and it looks like the culprit is the hose coming from the reservoir, which, after I pulled the sleeve on the hose, shows a crack. Now I wonder how long that crack has been there, but it's one more thing to check on the visual inspection after I replace the hose.

Looks like I have only lost a few ounces of liquid

Anything else I should check right away, while I am diving into the manual to learn about 02 hydraulics, and reading the brake bleeeding FAQ? Will inspect the lines tomorrow.

Other than that, the pedal rebuilding is going great. Paul’s instructions are easy to follow even for someone like me http://www.bmw2002faq.com/content/view/22/33/ and this project is a welcome distraction while I wait for the bits to finish the floor.

Starting point

ugh

Getting ready to remove the 19mm screw and 17mm nut that holds the clutch pedal

Removing the spring….

….and circlip

The fabled bolt/nut that holds the pedal box on the slotted end

Removing clutch master cylinder…This 13mm nut was not too bad, but the one above…no fun. Eventually I just used a vise-grip to hold it, and wrenched out the screw from inside the cabin; I am sure there is a more graceful way.

Box is out

[peteinjp]

Unless you like those monosyllabic type expressions be sure you get all of the break fluid off your paint........

If that blue hose is the only part of the line that you disrupted then you probably do not need to bleed the system. That hose just goes to the clutch- your brake line is unscathed... The system is set up so that if there is a leak in the clutch line it will not affect the cars ability to stop- the reservoir still holds fluid for the 2 hoses at the bottom for the brakes. No bleeder needed- except the fluid looks like it should be changed anyhow and if you have never done it then try it just for fun. Or just put on a new hose and drive it till you really want to do it. Most recommend a yearly flush.

[pyite20v]

Newbie here. Why would one need to rebuild the pedal box?

Right now when I push the clutch pedal in there is a loud click at the point of travel where the clutch releases the gear. It only happens on the way down, and only happens when the car has been driven a few mins and is warm.

Any ideas? Hopefully there is an easier fix than rebuilding the pedal box as I just read the faq and it doesnt sound so fun, esp on my 76.

Thanks!

Scott

[shipm_8]

Thank you, Pete. Gave the area a good scrub last night and again this morning. Car has not melted, but I am thinking that brake fluid incontinence may have earned me a few demerits as I try to climb the ladder of 02 mastery.

The brake lines are undisturbed, but now I am wondering whether it's worth replacing the brake cloth braided lines since I don't know how old they are? This might be a good chance for me to learn about brake bleeding.

Correct me if I am wrong: the clutch system is not pressurized so all I have to do is, once the reservoir is full of brake fluid, is bleed it? Bleed screw in the slave cylinder?

Scott - Others will give you a more authoritative answer, but the pedal box has a number bushings and springs that wear out or break/rust over time. The FAQ has a list of parts to consider replacing, although there are other bits that you might want to replace while you are there. The removal was not so difficult—Paul's instructions are great. Even the bolt holding the pedal box to the booster bracket; I did not have to loosen it all the way. The clutch master cylinder was difficult to remove, although it may have been easier had the nuts been inside the cabin and not outside--harder to loosen them that way but not impossible. In fact, the repair manual shows the nuts inside. My removal went downhill after I tried to pull the clutch master cylinder out to lower the box. I loosened the metal clamp that held the metal lines to the body of the car without realizing that the cloth-braided hose into the brake fluid reservoir was cracked so it would come out, dumping the fluid and causing emotional distress.

Others, I suppose, tackle the pedal box rebuild for the same reasons that some people climb to the top of Mount Fuji...because it's there, or because it's a rite of passage.

William

[ingraham]

I've praised the Motive products power bleeder before, and I'll do it again. I like it because it's effective, inexpensive, portable, and stand-alone. It holds up to two liters of fresh fluid.

www.motiveproducts.com

For a 2002 you need one Model 0109 pressure bleeder. A Model 1820 bleeder (catch) bottle is really handy to have. Check the mail order places for good prices.

Motive originated in Berkeley. The current owner is a Peninsula local and a BMW fan.

Yes, you can make your own out of a weed sprayer, soup can, produce bag, and duct tape, but the Motive bleeder and catch bottle are oh so gratifying, and you've got better uses for your time ...

[BillWilliams]

Hey William, I forgot your question, CRS setting in again, but when you replace the pedal box and the master, one of those dreaded jobs just behind getting a transmission to line up, is getting that pipe to fit into the master. Seems easy when you look at it.

Mike Pugh taught me to put that pipe in before you mount the pedal box or loosen the master and rotate it a few degrees to get that pipe in the grommet. Seriously.

Oh I remembered, Motive is good. I wish it had a swivel on the hose. You almost have to reverse twist the hose before you screw it on the reservoir or you are doing all sorts of contortions to get it screwed on.

There is some debate about filling the motive with fluid or just using the air pressure in the Motive to do the bleeding while keeping an eye on the fluid level in the reservoir..

To bleed a clutch, the oil can method is the bees knees.

The other dreaded chore is to get that clip on the pin that connects the rod and the arm for the brake booster.

Someone, maybe KC, uses the clip from an e-21, I believe. This clip takes all the "fun" out of placing that clip. It is worth putting a few of these clips in the parts box.

[ingraham]

Your 4th photo "ugh" is a perfect illustration of the clutch master cylinder and its connection to the clutch pedal. I'm hijacking your photo to comment on a clutch problem that turns up occasionally.

When everything is set up correctly, the rubber pads of the clutch and brake pedals should be even. If the clutch doesn't release completely, check out the linkage adjustment shown in your photo. Notice the shaft coming out of the clutch MC boot and leading to an eye bolt, jam nut, and the clutch pedal. Sometimes the jam nut comes loose, and the MC shaft turns on the eye bolt threads, thus shortening the throw. If you have a clutch release problem and especially if the pedals are uneven, check this connection first. You can readjust and tighten this linkage easily from inside the car.

Thanks for the pic.

[BillWilliams]

William, are you replacing the master?

If so, the new eye bolt is storied to be very weak. Either use the old eye bolt or there was a post about a hiem bolt someone found at McMaster-Carr that looks like a good replacement for the newer eye bolt.

Also, are you welding up that hole in the pedal box? Only there to collect junk and create a rust breeding ground.

[shipm_8]

Thanks for the guidance. Motive bleeder and related bottles plus two litters of brake fluid are on the way. I took the opportunity to tell Jessie this situation would be so much easier to tackle with a lift like the one we saw at Bimmerfest http://www.ezcarlift.com/, or maybe something cheaper.

I did have the problem you mention, Curt: The jam nut on the shaft coming out of the master cylinder was loose, so I suspect the eye bolt probably moved during the disassembly of the box. Looked it up on the repair manual, so when I reassemble, will start with the distance specs, check that the clutch and brake pedals are even as you suggest, and see what happens. I was hoping to find similar instructions for the brake pull rod on the manual.

Not planning to replace the master cylinder, although the more I work on the car and discover squawks, the more inclined I am to do preventive replacing as I learn the systems. So far, the clutch is working, but that did not stop me from browsing through Mcmaster's catalog of 480,000 items to see if I could find the alternate eye bolt; no joy, it's supposed to be an M10x1.25, male shank, right hand thread, ID 16mm, housing thickness 7mm. Will keep Mike Pugh's pipe fitting tip in mind; his method to bleed the clutch system looks so much simpler than the repair manual's.

After reading the past posts on pedal box rebuilding, I was 50/50 on whether to install the foam pad. I think I would prefer to weld the rectangular opening but I am going to first give the pad a try. After we move to San Diego in the fall, I will look to see when the community college offers a welding class.

While I wait for parts, and tackle other car projects, the dreaded circlip and I are spending some quality time together. Hopefully by the time I install it, it will recognize my authority and comply without resistance.

Thanks for the help.

William

circlip, receiving obedience training

[Scott Sislane]

wow, nice pic.s William. This is one of several jobs I've put off, sitting on all the bits & fresh box to replace...

If you need some of that blue cloth covered hose, I have extra. I replaced mine during my engine swap. Let me know, I'll stick it in the mail to you.

Scott

[JohnS]

Oh I remembered, Motive is good. I wish it had a swivel on the hose. You almost have to reverse twist the hose before you screw it on the reservoir or you are doing all sorts of contortions to get it screwed on.

Motive now sells a power bleeder with an aluminum cap with a swivel. It's called the Black Label European Power Bleeder Kit. I just received one, but haven't used it yet. I hope to do my 1st bleeding this weekend,

--John

[shipm_8]

Sounds like Bill has the swivel-less Red Label, but us first timers can benefit from the added features of the Black Label.

I can only imagine what a Blue Label version would offer..."Motive Products premium bleeder. Every bleeder is serial numbered and sold in a silk-lined box, accompanied by a certificate of authenticity."

I'm really excited about this upcoming brake bleeding adventure. Usually, when I begin a car project, my hope is that the car will start after I finish. In this case, I am hoping the car will start and then stop.

William

[JohnS]

I just hope that I can successfully bleed my brakes without getting brake fluid all over the place ;-)

BTW William, I was successful in replacing and adjusting my entire tii linkage using the tools and manuals I purchased from you. The car never ran better! Thanks

[shipm_8]

Thank you, John! I apreciate that! I'm still working on duplicating the 85mm linkage setter, but the ball studs are on backorder until late November, so it may be awhile. I'm also tweaking the hooks to better match the originals, which had a bend and a loop.

Scott–thanks for the offer. Let me double check to see if I already have some hose in the parts that I have hoarded over time. If you are embarking on the pedal box rebuild and need the plug that goes on the side, the one that's NLA, let me know. I have a few spares.

William