Trying to Locate a '74 '02 that 2002AD lost when they moved.

[josh72ooh2]

Thanks to all that have chimed in.

I still can't believe i got this much info within 24hrs and on a weekend.

The next step will be how to approach all this. I can't believe the DMV would allow this but... well... we have all dealt with the DMV and i can say California's DMV is a complete joke. It is pretty easy to get away with whatever you want...

(as i paid a company in vegas $75 to send me a Bogus New Hampshire title for my '78 Vespa. Long story short but the Vespa was brought from italy in the '80s and was passed around close friends in New Mexico, one of which lost all the paperwork before giving it to me. The CA DMV didn't bat an eye at NH title and now it is legit again. It could just as easily have been stolen.)

I have a folder of all my friend's paperwork of work done on the 2002. The work was quite extensive. It also includes copies of his title and probably the last registration. He has the actual title and keys still.

I think some calls to the DMV are in order, depending on what they say, maybe the police, and then finally Evan.

Either we get the car back... or we don't.... got nothing to lose for trying.

please e-mail me if anybody has any knowledge or strategy on this one...

the link should be near my name...

-Josh

[BarryA]

+ some understanding of how CA's vehicle code lien sale process works, it's not too hard to reconstruct what probably happened here:

1. Your buddy fails to pick up his car after having work done @ 2002 AD.

2. Said '02 sits at 2002 AD for a couple of weeks past the date it's due to be picked up and the work paid for.

3. 2002 AD makes a few unsuccessful attempts to contact the owner

4. Working within the prescribed proceedure for filing a lien to recover their unpaid expenses, 2002 AD files with the DMV and sends a registered letter to the owner's address on the vehicle registration - the letter informs the owner that the vehicle will be sold for past due repair and/or storage fees if the owner fails to contact the business by a specified date.

5. When the owner fails to respond to the letter, 2002 AD completes the lien process and obtains legal ownership of the car.

6. 2002 AD sells the car for fees due (since the car apparently wound up passing through Evan's hands, it's not impossible that Evan had a standing offer in place to buy lien sale cars from 2002 AD, which he subsequently resold).

7. Car is sold by 2002 AD, and either goes to its new owner or is resold.

Assuming the above is more or less what happened, nothing underhanded or borderline illegal was involved. Vehicles get abandoned at shops and in various other locations all the time - if there was work done that wasn't paid for, the lien sale process gives the shop owner a way to recover at least part of his unpaid bill; if the car was towed from a place where it was "abandoned", a lien sale does the same thing for a towing company that tows and stores the car.

Don't know if it's still the case or not, but in CA the lien sale reg's used to require shops and towing companies to document the repair and storage fees they'd actually accumulated and only allowed them to recover those fees, regardless of the "market value" of the vehicle. As a result, some pretty nice cars have been sold for very reasonable amounts; over the years, I've bought several lien-sale cars from shops and towing companies - all of them were very good deals, and all came with clear title.

[josh72ooh2]

Thanks... but some those assumptions did NOT happen.

I think the timing was right around the time of the sale and relocation of 2002AD. Thus, the car got shuffled into the crazy-mix when something like that happens. Ben seems to have taken all the parts and the 2002AD Name. The old owner probably liquidated whatever else was outstanding.

1. Your buddy fails to pick up his car after having work done @ 2002 AD.

It was dropped off for a quote. Not sure if 2002AD actually did any work.

2. Said '02 sits at 2002 AD for a couple of weeks past the date it's due to be picked up and the work paid for.

3. 2002 AD makes a few unsuccessful attempts to contact the owner

Owner was never contacted by 2002 AD. He had the same phone number all this time and the same address at the time all this happened. He hasn't heard a word from them.

4. Working within the prescribed proceedure for filing a lien to recover their unpaid expenses, 2002 AD files with the DMV and sends a registered letter to the owner's address on the vehicle registration - the letter informs the owner that the vehicle will be sold for past due repair and/or storage fees if the owner fails to contact the business by a specified date.

Owner never heard anything from DMV. He isn't poor and has the money should he owe. In fact, he was prepared to settle up storage fees with 2002AD this past saturday should they still have the car.

So... something isn't adding up as to how all this went down. The owner is on the case though and going to start taking some action (starting with the DMV). i think part of the problem is the internet and E-bay.... not pointing any fingers at Evan but it goes to show how easy it is to buy something bogus....

[jgerock]

Josh -

The lien process in CA works pretty much the same here in VA. My friends who own a local shop have been able to get very nice cars for ridiculous prices when their owners simply "abandoned" them while having work done. I believe the key to the lien process is that the owner signed a contract with the shop and if the owner couldn't pay, actions would be taken.

As far as the automatic car, a (another?) trip to see Ben at 2002AD could prove beneficial, as things seem to work out better in person (with a positive outlook). If folks go at this search with a bad attitude, it really won't help matters. You might be able to do a title search on a car (within a certain time limit) if you fill out the appropriate form at DMV and pay their processing fee.

Whatever you do, please keep us posted on the search.

ps: Have you tried to post an ad for the "lost" car in a local newspaper?

[jrhone]

I know you are and your friend are trying to find the car but the bottom line is theydont HAVE to call him...if they did any work and he didnt pay and they sent a letter, then thats all they need to do. it was there for FIVE years! So alot of shops charge like $35 a day storage....Thats $35 a day for 5 years is $63,875 for storage. I am SURE he wasnt prepared to pay that. That was an abandoned car and you dont leave them there for 5 years and expect to pick it up. Sorry...the car was acquired, sold and sold again. So what do you do about the new owner who paid good money for a legitimate car?

Thanks... but some those assumptions did NOT happen.

I think the timing was right around the time of the sale and relocation of 2002AD. Thus, the car got shuffled into the crazy-mix when something like that happens. Ben seems to have taken all the parts and the 2002AD Name. The old owner probably liquidated whatever else was outstanding.

1. Your buddy fails to pick up his car after having work done @ 2002 AD.

It was dropped off for a quote. Not sure if 2002AD actually did any work.

2. Said '02 sits at 2002 AD for a couple of weeks past the date it's due to be picked up and the work paid for.

3. 2002 AD makes a few unsuccessful attempts to contact the owner

Owner was never contacted by 2002 AD. He had the same phone number all this time and the same address at the time all this happened. He hasn't heard a word from them.

4. Working within the prescribed proceedure for filing a lien to recover their unpaid expenses, 2002 AD files with the DMV and sends a registered letter to the owner's address on the vehicle registration - the letter informs the owner that the vehicle will be sold for past due repair and/or storage fees if the owner fails to contact the business by a specified date.

Owner never heard anything from DMV. He isn't poor and has the money should he owe. In fact, he was prepared to settle up storage fees with 2002AD this past saturday should they still have the car.

So... something isn't adding up as to how all this went down. The owner is on the case though and going to start taking some action (starting with the DMV). i think part of the problem is the internet and E-bay.... not pointing any fingers at Evan but it goes to show how easy it is to buy something bogus....

[josh72ooh2]

Who knows how this will end up, and what the results will be. We are expecting the worst and hoping for the best. Based on the e-bay sale mentioned above, all the car transactions took place within a year or so of when he dropped the car off. So... If anything were to happen within a year of dropping a car off, you'd think there would be calls from 2002AD, challenges from the DMV, phone calls, letters, etc...

So something is fishy...

He is going to start his hunt now. I am out of town for a week. I'll be curious to see if he made any progress when i return.

Like i mentioned before, this is a two way street. He should have been better about keeping track of the car (but life's hurdles came up) and somebody from the shop should have made at least several attempts to deal with the owner prior to re-selling it.

I'll keep you all posted as to how this unfolds. I'm enjoying the ride so far... it is kinda exciting.

-Josh

[BarryA]

Who knows how this will end up, and what the results will be. We are expecting the worst and hoping for the best. Based on the e-bay sale mentioned above, all the car transactions took place within a year or so of when he dropped the car off. So... If anything were to happen within a year of dropping a car off, you'd think there would be calls from 2002AD, challenges from the DMV, phone calls, letters, etc...

So something is fishy...

He is going to start his hunt now. I am out of town for a week. I'll be curious to see if he made any progress when i return.

Like i mentioned before, this is a two way street. He should have been better about keeping track of the car (but life's hurdles came up) and somebody from the shop should have made at least several attempts to deal with the owner prior to re-selling it.

I'll keep you all posted as to how this unfolds. I'm enjoying the ride so far... it is kinda exciting.

-Josh

"He should have been better about keeping track of the car.... somebody from the shop should have made at least several attempts to deal with the owner prior to re-selling it." (my italics)

Unfortunately for your friend, the shop had no legal obligation to contact the current registered / legal owner beyond the lien notice letter - should the shop have attempted to contact him? Sure. Logically, would they try to contact him to collect on whatever fees were due? One would think so, but they have no legal obligation to do so.

So far as any contact from the DMV is concerned, I can tell you from personal experience that they're not going to make any attempt to contact the owner unless the car gets to its next registration due date, the car is still in the original owner's name on the DMV records, and the registration has not been paid. As far as the DMV is concerned, as soon as the lien is approved, the shop owns the car, and the previous owner is no longer a factor.

[penth2o]

Any update on this Josh???

[josh72ooh2]

Just got back from a week long trip in Europe. I'll connect with my buddy tomorrow (we work together).

-josh

[josh72ooh2]

If anybody is following this thread...

Just letting you all know that the (old) owner is buttoning up a giant project on his taxes and hopes to tackle the missing 2002 project soon.

Personally, i think he might be out of luck...

But his wife is an attorney and they might come out fighting...

I doubt anything will happen soon but when there is news, i will definitely post the progress.

-josh