engine and drivetrain Hello! And a few 2002 questions.

[Nay]

Hi, my names Nathan and I'm E30 owner/nut.

I'm planning on starting my project 325i. This is basically a strip down, respray, rebuild and upgrade where money and sense see fit!

What I'm doing with my E30 though is nothing new or that interesting and different. Although I love these cars, and chances are I'll do that for my project, its been done by many other people.

I know of a 2002 Touring around, which is not up for sale for much. Its pretty clean and not much rust from what I've heard, but not exactly a desirable car.

In the modding scene, from what I've seen, more people will use a stock 2002 saloon over a touring, which makes me think it could have some potential and be something rather different.

Coming from the E30 scene, I know much more about them. And, from what I've seen, lots of bmw parts are really similar in size and layout. I was just wondering if a few of the parts I horde would be suitable to use in a 2002.

One thing is the engine. Would a 325i (M20B25) lump fit into a 2002's engine bay? Also I have a proper performance manifold. Chances are I'd run out of room? Also, I'm hording a Z3 rack for much faster and tighter steering. Are the racks/columns similar?

I'm just rather curious as to whether to change the project to a 2002 touring to be somewhat different to the average bmw modder.

Any insight to these would be a nice deciding factor. Also, any links to guys/threads on here who have done interesting things to their 2002's?

Cheers people!

[Anschauer]

Nathan

Touring, swaps, mods, steering rack, you made my head explode.

What exactly do you want to know about 2002's?

[Nay]

Not too much about them to be honest. (Edit: Sorry, I thought you said "what do I know about them"!)

This is very similar to the 2002 that I know of, bar anything aplina. As far as I'm aware, thats a '2002 Touring'. I dont know how you would link a page/picture to this forum, so I've just posted the link.

http://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/1974_BMW_2002_Touring_Alpina_A4_Clone_Front_1.jpg

What I want to know is what are they like to work with? Can you put an M20B25 engine (from the E30 325i) into one with relative ease. For example, my E30 could house an M52 engine from an E36 with only a handful of alterations. Exhaust, prop and ECU problems are the only real obsticles.

Ok to start there then? I'll try take my pace of random questions down

Anyway. I did find a guide from a link after a little browse on here. The 6 cylinder engine does go in, but looks like it will require a new exhaust (my BTB manifold is out the window then), a different gearbox (goodbye close ratio gearbox plans) and quite a number of other changes.

[dhs]

yes, m20 will fit in an 02 without much complaint. There are, I am fairly sure, some good web sites detailing this on the web. here is some (edit I think you found this already)

http://www.bmw2002faq.com/component/option,com_forum/Itemid,0/page,viewtopic/p,656950/sid,c58ba127d77faba83a42ed7c5d5c0d7e/

2002 is a rear steer car so your Z4 rack will not do much good

there is no reason to not fit the CR gearbox if you have one or can get your hands on one.

[Nay]

Rear steer car? What do you mean by that?

I'd imagen the rack being no good, as the E30 is a wider car?

Whats the situation on using E30 suspension/frames etc? Possibly then could a Z3 steering rack be used?

[dhs]

rear stear is in regards to where the steering occurs compared to the wheels. A 2002 is steered from the back of the wheels, an e30 from the front.

You could fit an e30 suspension to a 2002. This is not a minor change however and largely unmapped territory (you would would be on your own). I'd say unless you have a great shop to do it for you or are skilled/confident in your abilities, probably best to direct your attention elsewhere.

[Gordon]

Nathan,

Try this page to learn as much as possible about 2002's

http://www.bimmers.com/02/

http://www.my2002tii.com/your2002tii.htm to learn about what other 2002 owners have done to there cars.

Check out the links section on top of this page and use the search function to learn more.

G-Man

[Nay]

Fair enough answer.

I know all of my plans are fine and aimed at the E30. But I was having thoughts towards the little 2002.

Tbh, if money and space came my way, I'll buy it and horde it for something closer to a restoration project.

Cheers for the quick response mate.

[BigDog]

I"ve seen a 2.5 with triple webers, now that would be cool to shove in a 2002 with the exception of all that weight which would ruin the perfect balance of these cars...

BD

[BarryA]

Quite a number of US '02's have recieved M20 transplants, but presuming that you'd be building up the touring with right hand drive, the details of your build would have fairly significant differences from building a similar car in left hand drive configuration.

For some comments / inputs, see the responses next to your questions....

I know of a 2002 Touring around, which is not up for sale for much. Its pretty clean and not much rust from what I've heard, but not exactly a desirable car.

Actually, at least within the '02 community, tourings are considered fairly desirable - you might find that you could turn a decent profit on it if the selling price is low enough and it's a running/driving car.

One thing is the engine. Would a 325i (M20B25) lump fit into a 2002's engine bay? Also I have a proper performance manifold. Chances are I'd run out of room?

There are space issues between the intake and brake booster on left hand drive cars, but that may not be so much of an issue with the braking system moved to the opposite side of the engine bay.

Also, I'm hording a Z3 rack for much faster and tighter steering. Are the racks/columns similar?

'02's use a steering box that bolts to a bracket on the front suspension subframe & a system of idler arms, links and tie rods that run behind the front cross member - it's not impossible to adapt a steering rack (the most commonly used unit is from the E21) but a fair amount of fabrication & adaptation is required. For a right hand drive installation, you'll probably also run into steering column / exhaust manifold clearance issues - Nick Vyse has been through this with a E30 M3 S14 engine install in a right hand drive touring - check the photos on his M2 web site.

Any insight to these would be a nice deciding factor. Also, any links to guys/threads on here who have done interesting things to their 2002's?

Lots of info on this site on M20 conversions, S14 conversions, suspension modifications, etc - can take a bit of searching, but you'll come up with all sorts of stuff. Only problem is that the vast majority of it applies to US spec left hand drive configuration.

Good luck - sounds like an interesting project.............

[Mike Self]

know, it's gonna be much easier to install the rack and pinion steering box from an E21 into an '02 than an E30 box. And...a properly adjusted and unworn 2002 steering box is a good 'un--you won't be able to tell much difference between it and a rack & pinion box--not enough to make all that work worthwhile...

mike

[Nay]

Thanks for your response mate.

True, a lot of users here are from the US. RHD configurations do run into exhaust manifold issues. My "BTB 3" manifold was specifically designed to allow E30s to have both an uprated steering rack (E36, E36, Z3, etc) and have BTB's renowned performance mani, without having to change the rack's mountings or modify the steering column etc.

This is a major factor for me. I am one of 20ish people in the world who owns one. They'll only make them if there is demand for a group buy in the off racing season. Essentially the same as the standard BTB-2, which there is loads. But anyway, I'd really want to use that.

About the "desirability" of a 2002 touring. They are generally undersirable cars/bmw's but within a niche community, the popularity for them will be much higher. For example, most E30 owners/fans would see the charm in an unmolestered 1984 316 chromie with an M10 engine (absolute bottom of the chain). Personnally I prefer the saloon 2002's, but the tourings have their charm. Considering I live in Jersey, which is a 9x5 mile island stuck in between the UK and Europe, to even find a 2002 for sale is lucky.

But as you said, most of the info I'll probably find on here relates to the US spec cars.

As I said, if I could get this car in my possesion, I'd probably do something closer to a resto, and learn about the possibilities as I go. Exhaust and gearbox issues when fitting the M20 into one is enough for me to know that the M20 will suffer badly from that (for what I want from the car).

So, what are the common engine mods/swaps? I assume M10 turbo's? and S14's? Possibly M52's?

[themoose]

In what world is a Touring less desirable than a standard '02?! I think my head may explode!

[Nay]

Haha, the world outside your head? lol, joking.

Most people think the tourings look like wierd hatchbacks.

The saloon has a much more intruiging shape to the un-initiated eye.

[roadhog0]

Welcome man! Another Nathan on the board is pretty cool to have! Man I would love to have a touring, they look pretty cool... But if you have some fabricating skills I would say go ahead and try anything! Your only limitation is your tools

Nathan