Early Tii Mystery

[Anschauer]

I hate to say it, being in the middle of the "80/20" '72 tii resto ...but

If you pay a reasonable price for a running, repainted tii like this say maybe dunno $4-5K and then put in another $10K you still will have only one half the car you could have by taking that "Schwartz Edition" off that guys hands in Colorado (see the long thread in the for sale section) for what he's asking.

Don't get me wrong or think I have buyers remorse but take a good hard look at my "rust free" '72 that was stored in a dry, heated workshop under cover for 20 years and sleep on it.

The powder coating bill on this alone will run $1500. I have spent more than 5K in new parts from Bell & Blunt, and I already have a warehouse of parts .

As an example of the fun you can expect: BMW is actually paying the body shop 4 hours of labor to correct the new front panel it shipped us which must have been assembled by a drunk wielding a tack welder. Not that the panel that was there was too bad - but if you want perfect and not bondo - well you have just made (another) $600 decision.

[JimH]

That Black Baby is a truly beautiful automobile. It brings the 02 to a whole new (34 year old) level! I don't meed a vehicle THAT perfect... maybe just close...lol.

I definitely hear what you are saying... A project of your magnitude can run your life and your finances.... and free time can be very hard to come by...

Thanks for your thoughts...

[thehackmechanic]

Jim, you asked if there were unique features on the early tiis. I recently sold an early '72tii and I'm sorry I let it go, though it seemed the right thing to do at the time. Like any 2002 mid-'72 or earlier, bodywise, the bumpers are tucked in closer (pre-2 1/2 mph) which does give the car a unique look compared to the later ones. Mechanically, the early tiis are the only ones with the combination of the 121ti head and the big (46mm) intake valves. If memory serves me correctly the horsepower specs are in fact a bit higher than for the later E12 equipped tiis. The early tiis had the plastic intake plenums which I believe were more leak-prone than the later metal ones.

You asked if you might be better served by buying an already sorted out car. You will ALWAYS be better served by buying an already sorted-out car, but that doesn't stop most of us. If you WANT to go through the process of (call it whatever you want) sorting out, personalizing, restoring a car, that's understandable, but go into it with eyes wide open; everything will cost you much more than planned.

[JimH]

My list of bimmers that I have owned includes a '72 '02 rustbucket, an Inka '73 that I saved from a basement in Montreal and rebuilt in '82/83. Drove that one for 15 years, and a '73 Riviera Blau that I drove for 10 years. That car was nearly rust free but needed an interior when I brought it North....also had a '72 Bavaria for 10 years or so.

I have a very good idea what to expect regarding restoration... and need to think realistically... I have nurtured a bunch of old bimmers and they have treated me very well over the years. I'm just hoping to take my BMW hobby to the next level, have fun, and not go broke in doing it...

I do love those early/close bumpers from the '72s and particularly the euro style ones. Having never owned a square tail light '02 I can say that they do look nice, but don't really excite me like round light cars do. Like I said previously, I like old things... antiques I guess, and would rather restore / preserve than modernize. I guess I'm sort of a purist in that way. Unfortunately, one with a limited budget.

So, I'm going to check out the photos of that early VIN car, and if it's just too far gone, I'll keep on looking for the right car to come my way.

I'm still very curious about the strange history of 'Ol #2760051.....

[jgerock]

Jim -

You are like me. I'd like an early tii (or ti) someday. Good luck on your search and purchase of a suitable car. Keep in mind that someone else's "restoration" has many different meanings. I'm finding out many little things about my tii that only you can bring out from asking previous owners.

So far, I've found out:

The nose on my car was replaced a long time ago (no snorkel!) due to a hard front end collision (left front).

New front fenders (no side marker lights) fitted at the same time.

Rear trunk lid is from a 74+ car (has holes for roundel).

There is welding along the framerails (but both are solid).

Rear differential had chewed up spider gears.

Under dash contains parts from different year Roundies.

[mo's72tii]

I have a couple of 72tii's. One that is getting done now is proabably going to be about 40K all in but a tii automatic. I have an Inka #18 that will be an M2 conversion with an S14 and a dogleg 5sp CR box.

[02Les]

If I remember correctly, VIN 2760018 (mo's72tii) was manufactured 20th Oct '71.

If 2760051 (a later VIN) was manufactured 1st Sep '71 then there is another mystery.

US tiis were manufactured from Aug '71.

[JimH]

Thanks for the post Jim. Like most of the guys out there. I have always had to use the best parts that I had available to me. I've been known to use earlier bumpers on my first '73 for instance. I installed a crack free one piece dash in the '73 Riviera Blau when I knew the 3 piece was correct. These things do happen when you have limited resources but still want to put together a presentable car while you're waiting for that correct piece to come along. One of the nice thing about these cars is they are very modular. As I'm sure you've gathered, I tend to stay fairly old school when it comes to mods and upgrades. I tend to appreciate cars more when they have period-like upgrades vs. modern enhancements...... but don't get me wrong. With the invention of the pertronix I will never adjust points again Jim

[JimH]

Wow, the date of manufacture thing definitely is strange. Perhaps a vehicle could have been tied up by the quality dept before it was approved to ship?

[ought2]

My list of bimmers that I have owned includes a '72 '02 rustbucket, an Inka '73 that I saved from a basement in Montreal and rebuilt in '82/83. Drove that one for 15 years, and a '73 Riviera Blau that I drove for 10 years. That car was nearly rust free but needed an interior when I brought it North....also had a '72 Bavaria for 10 years or so.

I have a very good idea what to expect regarding restoration... and need to think realistically... I have nurtured a bunch of old bimmers and they have treated me very well over the years. I'm just hoping to take my BMW hobby to the next level, have fun, and not go broke in doing it...

I do love those early/close bumpers from the '72s and particularly the euro style ones. Having never owned a square tail light '02 I can say that they do look nice, but don't really excite me like round light cars do. Like I said previously, I like old things... antiques I guess, and would rather restore / preserve than modernize. I guess I'm sort of a purist in that way. Unfortunately, one with a limited budget.

So, I'm going to check out the photos of that early VIN car, and if it's just too far gone, I'll keep on looking for the right car to come my way.

I'm still very curious about the strange history of 'Ol #2760051.....

Hey, Jim! I want you to know that old Blue is fine and being well taken care of.

[JimH]

Hi back Bob... She sure is lookin' good. I hope you are really enjoying her. No buyer's remorse or anything?? As you can tell I'm getting the "02 Jones" again. The last time that happened Ol' Blue came home with me...lol.

[Meintii]

Well then.. I guess my tii #117 is not as early as i though

[ought2]

Hi back Bob... She sure is lookin' good. I hope you are really enjoying her. No buyer's remorse or anything?? As you can tell I'm getting the "02 Jones" again. The last time that happened Ol' Blue came home with me...lol.

Absolutely no buyer's remorse, Jim. Glad to see you're getting back in the game! I'll swing by sometime soon.

[JimH]

Zac that sounds pretty old to me! Is that a "For Sale" sign I see in the back window?

[Meintii]

Zac that sounds pretty old to me! Is that a "For Sale" sign I see in the back window?

LOL. Thats my Legit GA License plate in the rear view window, so I can run my Euro tag on the back of the car

AND BTW this thread needs another picture so.. here you go.