engine and drivetrain tii cold idle and hot start question.

[Grill]

Hi, I recently purchased a '72 2002tii which I have for a long time desired. There are two problems that I hope are related and fimiliar to some of you guys, they are;

1. The car starts pretty easily, but then doesn't want to idle at all until say the third start - but then it idles very low; about 2-300rpm. However, once the car is warmed up, the idle is fine.

2. Once warm everything seems fine (idle, response, etc) but if I turn the engine off, it will not restart unless I run the starter for a long time (something I really don't like to do).

Any help and suggestions are greatly appreciated!

[c.d.iesel]

injection fuel pressure test

(30 psi)

compression test

(above 135 psi)

valve adjustment

(0.006" cold)

in that order.........

[aa/fd]

Read up on the Tii adjustment the cold start is a many faceted device.

The warm up device on the end of the pump adds air and fuel throughout the warm up cycle.

The cold start timer adds fuel at start through the additional nozzle

Familiarize your self with the parts and their function, it is pretty straight forward

You are going to want some special tools they make the adjustments much easier

"asvander" a member of FAQ makes and sells them, they are NLA from BMW

The Tii adjustment is covered in most of the repair books I have seen, as well there is a Kugelfisher Manuel available over at the Tii registry.

Don't overlook the ignition and valve lash. The distributor mechanical advance condition has a profound effect on these Tii's

[Grill]

Thank you, I was hoping that my specific quirks (low cold idle and hard hot starts) may be a specific item since they are quite repeatable. .

[Guest]

Sounds like you need to get your hands on the tii tuning & troubleshooting guide at the tii register:

http://2002tii.org/kb/732

My guess is you need to fully test the cold start system & warm up regulator, then calibrate the pump with the throttle body. For starters. Replace anything not acting right, i.e. temp sensor, cold start relay, cold start valve, warm-up regulator. They can all be bench tested. If they all look good, then move to ignition.

[ray_]

Yeah, do this!

GL,

Ray

Sounds like you need to get your hands on the tii tuning & troubleshooting guide at the tii register:

http://2002tii.org/kb/732

My guess is you need to fully test the cold start system & warm up regulator, then calibrate the pump with the throttle body. For starters. Replace anything not acting right, i.e. temp sensor, cold start relay, cold start valve, warm-up regulator. They can all be bench tested. If they all look good, then move to ignition.

[aa/fd]

Thank you, I was hoping that my specific quirks (low cold idle and hard hot starts) may be a specific item since they are quite repeatable. .

OK here is where I'd start

(1) low speed when cold:

the warm up regulator is not opening allowing air when cold (along with enriching the system) cause regulator stuck in one position or way out of adjustment

(2)hot start issue:

cold start injector is on always making hot starts hard, unplug the lead to the injector see if it starts easy, cause timer inoperable, temp sensor bad. Or see item (1)

[williamdholmes]

the warm up regulator has two functions, fuel mixture enrichment and auxiliary air (idle speed during warm up). the auxiliary air portion is adjustable separately from fuel enrichment. to increase idle speed during warm up you can unlock (set screw) and move the air slide. first you must determine that the fuel enrichment portion functions and is adjusted correctly. if it is stuck in the enriched position that can impair warm starting.

[jgerock]

Has the coolant been changed/flushed from the radiator and engine?

The aluminum inlet "manifold" bolted to the cylinder head has a small hose for coolant to travel into the warm up unit on the back of the KF pump.

You'd be surprised how much gunk will clog that section.

I'm no expert - but I wouldn't even touch the tii adjustments until you ensure the rest of the engine is OK (valve adjustment, compression test, tune-up, oil and coolant changes, ALL hoses are in good shape), etc.

A tii does not like a rusty gas tank, clogged fuel filters/screens, gummy oil and coolant and someone (sometimes me!) who messes with their injection system.

[Grill]

Thank you All for the suggestions. Upon further investigation I found that the cold start injector was constantly on, so during warm-up the idle was low because it was getting flooded with gas, apparently at some point (warm) the injector shuts off and the engine idles ok. Then when I turn the warm engine off and try to restart, the cold start injector activated again and was flooding the engine so it would not start.

The clue that pointed me in the right direction was when I pulled the air cleaner boot off of the intake and saw the mist constantly spraying (with ignition on for more than 15 sec). I then ran tests on the temp sensor which seemed to pass, likewise on the cold start injector, so I'm figuring the (temp-time) relay is bad.

As proof, I was able to start the engine cold with good idle and warm start-up by manually pulling the connector off of the cold start injector so that I controlled what the relay was supposed to do. BTW, I resoldered all of the relay internal connections with no change in results - guess a new one is in the future but at least I know how to make it work even without the relay.

Thanks again all.

[MikeWooldridge]

Precisely why many of us have installed a push-button to activate the injector as needed.